Interviewee:  Robby Stern
Affiliation:  Washington State Labor Council
Interviewer:  Miguel Bocanegra
Date of interview:  13 September 2000

MB

This is Miguel Bocanegra.  I'm here with Robby Stern, Special Assistant to the President of the Washington State Labor Council.  We're here at the Washington State Labor Council.  It's September 13 about 11 a.m.  Can you trace some of the significant events that occurred within AFL-CIO, or you in particular, leading to the WTO?

RS

We have been involved in trade policy issues from before the NAFTA.  Our organization has played a significant role in demonstrations related to NAFTA.  We had one of the ministerial meetings here in Seattle around NAFTA, and there was a big demonstration downtown.  Then we did the Hands Across the Border demonstration with the Canadian Federation of Labor around NAFTA and went back to D.C. and lobbied on that.  Similarly, we were involved in Fast Track.  The State Labor Council was very heavily involved in doing educational work among our affiliates and among our rank and file on the issues of international trade and the direction that international trade was taking in terms of the ignoring of labor and human rights and environmental protection in the globalization movement.  Then we got very much involved in opposing Fast Track, then went back to D.C. and lobbied on that, as well as did a number of things among our own members. 

Also, we're involved in helping to kill the Multilateral Agreement on Investment, the MAI.  So we had been really doing quite a bit of work among our affiliates and among our rank and file around trade issues.  We had some reason to believe that the disaster of the '94 election had a lot to do with the fact that our people were really pissed off about, particularly, what happened with NAFTA.  So we've been working on those trade issues for a while and had been both with government officials and among our labor folks.

MB

What was your role during the WTO?

RS

Prior to the event, I had both a planning and organizing role. I helped plan the march, recruited and helped organize the training of the peacekeepers, and helped plan our logistical communications system. On the 30th, I was one of two leaders of the peacekeeper/monitors for the rally and march. On Wed. and Thurs. I was basically a participant. On Friday, I assisted with the planning and the logistics of the march.

MB

How did your work previous to the WTO translate into action during the protest when you found out the WTO was coming to town?

RS

When we found out the WTO was coming to town, I was basically told I was going to be working with the person who was being sent out here, Vinnie O'Brien, to put together the logistics of the march on the 30th.  Certainly, I did not have an overall coordination role, but my job was to put together the basic outline of what we wanted the route of march to look like, how we were going to organize ourselves at the stadium.  We had decided we wanted to make this a big family event.  We wanted people to feel safe, to have their kids there.  We wanted older, retired people to be able to feel like they could be at this event.  So we had to think very carefully about how we were going to provide security, and what we were going to do in order to make it possible for what we hoped would be a very massive involvement on the part of working people in this state, as well as we knew of people coming from organized labor from throughout the country. 

Also, to put together our plan for our marshals for the march.  The person who negotiated with the city on the line of march was Ron Judd, but we were the ones who proposed to him how we wanted to go, Vinnie O'Brien and myself.  Then I was responsible for recruiting marshals, having coordinators for the marshals, and putting together a communication system and all that stuff.  That was my role.  Finally, my role was, at the end of the rally, and this didn't work out at all, I was supposed to get people singing "Power to the People," while the people who were supposed to lead the march could get out of the stadium and to the front of the march.  But as it turned out, people left the stadium in large numbers, so we weren't able to keep as many people in there as we had hoped so that we could have an orderly exit from the stadium to the march.  So I was basically responsible, along with Vinnie O'Brien for security for that day.  That was on the 30th, the day of the labor rally and march.

MB

So what do you feel the Washington State Labor Council, AFL-CIO, was trying to accomplish in the protest?

RS

What were we trying to accomplish? I think what we were trying to accomplish was to send a very serious message to the global leaders that any discussion about world trade or globalization has to include discussion about labor standards, human rights, and environmental standards, and that we are very serious about this, and we're prepared to mobilize and disrupt and do what we need to do to make sure that's on the agenda.

MB

Did you work in coalition with other groups?

RS

I wasn't directly involved in working in coalition with other groups.  I attended meetings where Ron Judd and the other folks from the AFL-CIO worked with other groups, but that wasn't my primary responsibility.  My primary responsibility was working with organized labor.

MB

Do you think it was a successful mobilization?

RS

Oh, yeah.  I think it was historic.  I think that when history is written around the struggle around globalization, that Seattle is going to be considered to be, if not the kick-off, one of the most signifi­cant events in the struggle.  Now I'm not a historian, but even now you read about what's going on in Australia with the demonstrations, they make reference to what happened in Seattle.  Every single event that occurs is referenced to what happened in Seattle.  I think it was extremely historic.  But I certainly don't think organized labor was solely or even maybe primarily responsible for that.  I think that clearly what was amazing was the activities of particularly young people like yourself, the Direct Action Network, a lot of those folks who went out there and actually shut it down.

 I think that we were in a different position than a lot of the folks from the Direct Action Network.  We were saying to people on the 30th, we were saying to parents, your kids can be here; we were saying to elderly, you can be here and express it.  And it was our responsibility to protect those folks.  And I feel like we did that.  We might have made a few mistakes, but we did that.  But clearly, the sheer size of it combined with the determination of thousands and thousands of young people and their supporters to shut it down was historic.

MB

What kind of…you said there were some mistakes that were made?

RS

Well, I think there were some tensions that developed during the week between the folks who were determined to put their bodies on the line and shut it down and the folks who were determined to make a massive presence felt, but not jeopardize people who were there.  I am personally critical of the fact that the march of some 40,000 to 50,000 was diverted, at least 50% of it was diverted at Blanchard Street.  I had come out of the stadium last, because of the role I had, and when I heard it was diverted on the walkie-talkie, I went running up to where the march was being diverted and ran into Rich Feldman there, and I said, Rich, can't this march go to where we were planning to go, which was to Pine?  And he went running down and said, no, we ought to go ahead.  So we pulled the marshals off and took the march where the original march was supposed to go. 

But I think what happened was that Vinnie, who had responsibility for the security of a lot of the elderly leaders who were at the head of the march, and also felt the awesome responsibility of telling parents you can bring your kids and stuff like that.  When the police told him in the march that there was teargassing and stuff going on up at Pine, Vinnie made the decision to allow the march to be diverted.  I think that probably at that time somehow we should have stopped and we should have checked to make sure whether the march in fact could go through, rather than just agreeing to what the police were saying.  So I think that even then, well over 50% of the march took the actual route the march was supposed to take.  Some people are critical of the fact that the marchers did not stay downtown with the people who were being gassed that day.  But I think that once we had made the commitment to people that they were going to be safe, that we were going to take care of them, we had to get that march through, and then people could make their own decisions whether they wanted to go back downtown to participate in the other activity that was going on downtown. 

On Wednesday, I think that it would have been better if the steelworker rally (I think the steelworker rally was on Wednesday), I think it would have been better after the rally if we would have told people, all of you who are willing, let's go uptown and make sure that those kids who are being treated, as George Becker said, so shabbily, have us around there to support them.  And it was a lot of chaos there, so I don't fault anyone for that, but I think that would have been better.  But I think those are minor in relationship to the, and clearly a lot of people went.  I thought that the march on Friday, when we took back the city and penetrated the no-protest zone was excellent.  I thought it was well put together.  I thought it was a great coalition.  So all in all, I think the mistakes were minor.  They were things that I look back on and regret, but over all, I think it was a huge success.

MB

You mentioned earlier in the interview about Australia, and the protest going on there and they refer to Seattle as a starting point.  Do you think that this type of organizing that occurred in Seattle was different than organizing that occurred in the past within organized labor or within student movements in general?

RS

No.  I think there has been a lot of coalitional work, particularly around issues of globalization and trade.  I think it was, in fact, the culmination of a lot of work that had happened in the past.  Otherwise, it never would have been as big and not worked as well as it did.  So, no, I don't think it was the beginning.  I think some people will say it was the beginning of a movement, and I think there may be some truth to that.  But I think the groundwork, the foundation for that movement, was laid well in the past, both in terms of international contacts and in terms of cross-organizational contacts, and it made it possible for people to work together.  How that will carry over into other political arenas, I don't know.  I don't have a clue.

MB

Did you see the Internet affecting any of the organizing strategy?

RS

I'm sure that it did, but I don't know that much about that.  I certainly, in terms of the role that I played, did not use the Internet.  But I'm not the webmaster here.  The webmaster is David Groves, and I'm sure that he was very much involved in getting information up on the Internet as things went on.  And to the extent that the Internet played a role, I'm just not aware of it.  I was kind of on the ground.

MB

So you think it was definitely a successful mobilization.

RS

Yes, I do.

MB

What made it a successful mobilization?

RS

Well, I think there are a number of things that made it a successful mobilization.  One was the sheer numbers.  Clearly, that was amazing.  I think the shutting down of the WTO on the first day was a success, and I don't give any credit for that to organized labor, but I think that was a huge success.  I think that the very presence of such large numbers of people gave a lot of impetus to the poor nations to stand up very strongly and argue their positions and led to the failure of the millennium round.  I think that was clearly a victory for the people's movement.  On a whole variety of levels, I think it was.  I think people came out of it feeling good, I thought the solidarity that was expressed, the stuff that happened around the jail, the solidarity in the jail, the failure of the WTO millennium round, the mobilization of communities from all over, communities of color, the labor community, the environ­mental community, farmers, I just think it was a huge success.  That's why I think everyone feels so excited about it.

MB

What did you see specifically as your role within that success?

RS

Very small part.  I just had a job and did it.  I had a particular job, and I did my job.

MB

Is there anything you would like to add?  Anything within your experience during that week that you'd like people to know about?

RS

There were some really high moments for me during the week.  Number one, getting to the Seattle Center at six in the morning and seeing hundreds and hundreds of marshals show up to be oriented and trained for the day's activity.  It was really clear something special was going to happen.

MB

On November 30.

RS

On November 30.  And then coming into that stadium and seeing the massive crowd that was coming. It was so exciting to see the numbers that were there.  I was responsible for security in the stadium, and I had marshal coordinators, and they all had walkie-talkies.  They were supposed to call me if there was any problem at all.  So I got this one call from someone, I won't mention his name, and he said, Robby, I think we've got a security problem here.  He said, we've got some women, naked-breasted women here, so would you come on over.  So I said, I'll be right there.  So I went running over, and there were these lovely women who had stuff written on them, and they were naked-breasted, and I said, “Hey, they ain't hurtin' anybody, this isn't a security problem,” so everyone enjoyed that, and that was the end of that.

I got to sing with Sweet Honey in the Rock at the end.  I sang "Power to the People," and they did back-up for me, and I never, ever thought I'd get to sing with Sweet Honey in the Rock.  That was too cool for words.  Then the march through downtown, I was really glad that we moved those marshals aside so people could walk down Fourth Avenue to Pine and then walk that way and just seeing the variety of people and the diversity of who was out there.  Here come the farm workers, and here come the sheet metal workers, and here come the steelworkers.  It was just so marvelous.  So I had to wait till the end of the march to get through, and then I brought up the rear with the marshals, and I'm singing, "Power to the People."  And someone says, there's Michael Moore…Michael Moore, the guy who did Roger & Me.  So I said, Michael Moore, I had the bullhorn, come on over here, man and sing with us.  So we're all singing, and Michael Moore's just kind of sitting looking at us.  I said, okay, you don't like this song, what do you want to sing.  So he took the blow horn and started singing "Kumbaya," right.  That was really funny.  That was really, really cool. 

Other highlights for me have to do with the university students and the kids.  That night, my kids, first Jacob, talked about how exciting it was at the U.  He had thought there were going to be 500 students coming to it, and he'd come out on Red Square that day and there were 3,000 students out there.  He was blown away.  So he was just high as a kite.  He was just really feeling good. 

And my daughter was one of the people who had led a walkout at Garfield.  She was all pumped about the fact they had marched up to Seattle Central and then they'd all met on Denny, and there was like 6,000 students, and they'd never had an experience like that before.  So they were really high and excited about that.  Also, Jacob had a number of his friends over to the house, so we were kind of able to go over the day, and just being able to do that with a new generation was just marvelous. 

And then I really, really felt good about the steelworkers and their role in that march.  And one of the things that was so exciting about that march, that was on Thursday, was that when we left the Labor Temple, and we were marching down Alaskan Way, and we'd look up the hill, and down would come, at each hill walking down Alaskan Way, literally a thousand students.  First, we'd go past one hill, then here comes a thousand students joining us, young people.  We'd go past another hill, and another thousand would come down and join us.  It was like, oh, my God, this is amazing.  So that was really fun.  And then getting such a large crowd singing and chanting together was so cool, and seeing like all the different forces up there together at that rally talking and expressing solidarity with each other.  That was very exciting. 

The other things that I remember that were really exciting was going to the jail, the King County Jail, and all the people who were sleeping and sitting out there, and it seemed a very different culture for me, I mean the whole thing about consensus, and people repeating after each other, I thought it was a little bit weird, but I also thought it was cool.  And I was just so struck by the commitment of the people who were there.  It was just really very exciting.  And then finally, on Friday, the march to take back the city I thought was really wonderful, to have the religious leaders involved.  I just loved that.  I thought that the broad coalition that was brought together, the statement of unity from the religious community, and I thought it was a march that there were a number of people thought we should not stage.  They were worried about what would happen.  But you know, darn it, it was the right thing to do, and we did it.  And I thought it was really good that we did that. 

One of the things people were worried about was what the anarchists would do in the march.  And so what we did was we stationed construction workers and ILWU workers around the anarchists who were in the march.  They were just kids, and we didn't do anything, we just let them know that we were there.  And they kept their act together, and that was good, and they did not do anything that they shouldn't have done.  Another cool thing about Friday for me was joining the march that day with not only my wife but my in-laws.  So that was really cool to have them.  They were here from Israel, and they went on the march on Friday, and I thought that was really cool.  So it was both a family thing, and I thought it was just a really good thing to do.  All in all, it was a week that I'll never forget. 

MB

You talked a little bit about your son, and you had a conversation, all of you together debriefing the day.  Did you notice with your experiences, maybe even within the labor movement, that there is differences in the political experiences between younger activists and older activists?

RS

That's too broad a generalization.  I think there are differences in experiences among different people.  I think for some people it was very scary, well, for a lot of people it was very scary.  What was inter­esting about it was there was participation of a very broad political spectrum of liberal, even mid-range to progressive, and I think that for young people like Jacob, it was their first real exposure to mass struggle.  And that was really valuable.  And for other people, I don't think it pushed them forward at all.  I just think that people had different experiences with it, but I don't know if it fits on the older and younger spectrum.  I think it has to do with what the mindset was that you brought into it.  But I think the majority of people who participated had their politics pushed forward as a result of their participation. 

MB

Is there anything else that you'd like to add?

RS

No.

MB

Well, thanks.

RS

Sure.