About Sevgi

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Transcript

Narrator: Sevgi Baran
Date: November 16, 2022
Interviewed By: Lyle Donovan
Place: Seattle, WA

Lyle Donovan: So this is November 16, 2022. And we are here in Sevgi’s lovely home, conducting an oral history. So if you'd like to begin by just telling us a little bit about yourself, where you are, sorry, where you're from, your name, things like that.

Sevgi Baran: Sure. I am Sevgi Baran. That's my name. And I am originally from Istanbul, Türkiye. I was born there. In 1990, in January of 90, I moved to Seattle, as an immigrant. My brother and sister was living in Seattle since 1976. So I always wanted to come as a student like my sister did, but at that time, it was so hard to get a student visa that they didn't trust me that I was going to go back to Turkey after I finished my school here in the States. I really loved my country, my friends. I wanted to come to the United States to study English. But for sure, I will go back to Turkey because I really fallen in love my country. But the things didn't work out so easy for me actually. They didn't give me a touristical visa. The purpose was they didn't trust me that I was going to go back to Turkey then they asked me if I could apply for a student visa. So my brother did all the work for me, got me I-20 forms acceptance, all the letters that the consulate was required. They said I was trying to get into the states with a shortcut. So they said I could apply for a green card at that time through to my parents. So they said you can go just by applying for a green card. So that was the only solution that I could do. So my parents applied for a green card for me, I get a green card. At that time, I had a sister back in Turkey, her husband passed away so early, she had two babies. And then while they are applying for me, they applied for my sister and we ended up being here together at the same time, same day. So since then, I have been living in Seattle. I'm in Seattle because my brother and sister was here. I didn't have any other choice. As I said, we came in January. Until June it was always raining gray sky, and I was so upset I didn't like it at all. I will cry every day, for my friends for sunny days and Summer wasn't coming at all. It was hard. I used to sail when I was back in Turkey. So end of April, we will start preparing our boats for the summer. I mean, it will be summertime, you know. It will be spring. We will wear shorts, shirts. But it wasn't coming, summer wasn't coming in Seattle, so I was really sad.

LD: So you mentioned how like the weather just was something that was different. So were there any other expectations about the US that you had when you first came here?

SB: Of course, I was missing my friends a lot, that was the thing, and language was difficult. I wasn't getting friends like when I started the ESL program in a week or so. I was hoping that I will get lots of friends. It was so hard like because everybody was nervous or shy and we don't have any language, uh, common language to speak, you know, where everybody is in premier English. That was another thing that I missed. And um, have you, back in Turkey your friends, your neighbors, you can just stop by and knock their door and “oh, how are you doing?”, and then they will say “oh come on over”, you know we'll have a tea, we have some stuff. Here when you wanted to meet somebody, to get together, they were like opening their agenda. They didn't have the cell phones at that time. They will go like okay, “We'll meet, Which coffee? What time? Where?” It was like all appointments, appointments, you know, dates and times. I didn't like that at all. It's still going on the same way but what happened? I got used to it over 30 years, so I do the same thing, you know. If they will say, “Oh, let's, Sevgi, meet somewhere”. I'm like, “if you'd like to come to my home, it's great, but where shall we meet? Which Starbucks? Which coffee? What time? What day?”

LD: And then, and then how did your parents feel about you coming over? Like you mentioned that they helped you get the green card. But, um but were they still in Turkey?

SB: No, actually, they were here. They were- My parents at that time were like staying six months here, six months back in Turkey. But after me and my sister decided to move over here. My dad got retired, sick and retired, he was running a business, his own business, so he shut down. We came. We were all in Seattle together. When I was homesick complaining about being homesick, my mom used to tell me, “look, Sevgi. I'm so happy because I'm with my kids. You are with your family but you still miss and cry about the gypsy who sells the flowers on our street, like in Istanbul, or the butcher, you know, or your friends.” Like I was so attached to my neighborhood. Yeah, that was a…

LD: I would like to hear a bit more about what your father did, his profession before he retired.

SB: He was a mechanical engineer actually. The reason he closed his business and moved here, because of my sister's sons. As a grandpa for the two kids, lost their dad, he was so attached to them actually. He said, “Wherever my grandsons are gonna live I have to live there.” We came in 1990. And then he passed away in 1992, actually, two years later, so that was sad. But at least he know where we are, you know, are with the family that kids are with the uncles and aunties, so.

LD: And then how about yourself? What did your educational and professional career look like?

SB: Okay. When I was in Turkey, actually, I finished high school. And my plan was coming to the States or I didn't apply for the University back in Turkey. And I love photography. So I took a two years course while waiting for my green card to be approved. I did some photography. I did learn about processing the films, printing the prints outs and stuff. And then that helped me a lot actually. So because when I came to the States, you know, like, couple months later, I got bored, I needed a job, you know, you cannot sit at home. So I started working in the photo lab at the Pike Place Market. That was my first real job with almost no English, but I know how the machines were working. So I was working there and I had the greatest boss, I still keep in touch with him. It was a great job I did, you know, I was saving money for the college while going to ESL classes. And then after a year, I started taking credit classes. So I did two years college for information technology and business. And then at the last year of my school year, I did a job at school at the Seattle Central College. And then I was working before their hourly too, actual part time. So I went I got a full time job, of course I thought so like I'm, like great. I got the job I finished the school. And then I got stuck at the college. So for the last 28 years, maybe 29? I have been still working at the same department.

LD: And then like, have you found a community in the department? Is that part of the reason you stayed so long?

SB: I love working with the students. I'm such a social person. I love people from age seven to 70. I do have friends, lots of friends. And I mean I love helping people. I went through that steps as a foreigner student so I like to help them, I like to talk to them. They always come for help. I love my colleagues, you know, the instructors, faculty, it's a great location. Didn't feel like looking for another job or applying for a Microsoft or other high tech company. Nice. Yeah, I am happy. Maybe I did the right thing since big companies are layoff people now. You know?

LD: And what about your siblings? Did they pursue professional avenues close to yours?

SB: Not really, no. I have a sister who is an architect. I have a sister who is doing payroll at the Children's Hospital. My brothers are retired, both engineers. Yeah. Nobody is close to computers.

LD: And then how about some of the greatest challenges you faced while immigrating? You mentioned that it was hard to get a visa. But was there anything challenging, like language identity, I know you mentioned, once you got here to the United States?

SB: No, not really. Only timewise it took longer. And, you know, that was like little, maybe a waste of time, of my life, but you know, that was okay. Was that the answer?

LD: The answer is just whatever-

SB: -I get you. I guess that's it.

LD: And then, so were you trying to then connect back to Turkey anyway. I think I know that you just wanted conversation with your mom about that, right?

SB: Yeah I was, I was really homesick. So all my student life. I was like pulling the summer vacation. “Four eyes” what we say, you know, waiting for it. And then I was going back to Turkey for my summer vacations for two months. And then, but when I started working, of course, I had to save my vacation time and money. Since it's a long distance and very expensive to fly to Turkey, I wouldn't like going less than a month. So I started going every other year. I was doing little traveling around the states, or you know close, like to Canada or Mexico. And one big trip to Turkey.

LD: And then when you would go back to Turkey, who is it that you would visit? SB: My friends and my relatives. I did have my uncle really close to my family and his wife, my aunt. We lost my uncle two years ago actually. But now his wife is alive. You know, I talk every Sunday with her on FaceTime because we are like our kids too and I do stay with them. And I have lots of friends in Istanbul and Bodrum. Bodrum is a nice town to go during the summertime. I don't know if you guys heard or not, but it's like, Aegean coast, beautiful sea, scenery. Yeah.

LD: And are those friends from highschool?

SB: High school, middle school. I do, I do have lots of friends but some of them are really close to me like my sister. I do have one from middle school. Her name is Palin. She came and visit me in Seattle five times. So we are that close. Actually, whenever I go I stay with her and see other friends we get together. Yeah, they always go like you didn't stop by to my house, you know. I started doing an American way. I'm like, I will be at this coffee shop such and such date. I will post it on my Facebook so whoever reads it once they see me they can come and see. But they are like, Oh, we don't count that. You have to come to my place for dinner. You have to come and stay with me too. I'm like, we spent the whole day together. You know, they go like you stay two nights at Tulum, but you never stay with me. That's all bargaining, you know, when you go.

LD: Well yeah. Yes so, with all that travel back and forth and like the turkey, the culture in Turkey clashing with the culture in the United States, how has that impacted your personal identity?

SB: It was different in the states. It was totally different. But you get used to it, You know? I'm like–. In the past, for the beginning I will think that I'm Turkish, you know, this is my roots, and this is my… gosh, I forgot the word now…oh, this is my customs you know. That now I'm a little bit American too, you know? So I had been changed as well, probably. So it doesn't affect me in America. Yeah.

LD: So, so do you still have your green card status?

SB: Oh, I became a citizen, actually, after five years, so for the last 25 years I have been a citizen.

LD: Then what other ways do you then contribute to the American society?

SB: Such as?

LD: Voting in different-?

SB: Oh, yeah, that was the reason I wanted to get citizenship. And you cannot– At that time, I don't know, I guess it's changed, you cannot keep your green card forever. After a certain year, they want you to become a citizen. So, I did that. I was just counting my years. You have to have your green card for five years and you are eligible to apply for a citizenship. At the date I completed my five year I went and got my citizenship. Of course, for the big purposes, for voting. Secondly, it's easier to travel with American passport, you don't need a visa, so.

LD: So then, so then would you say you currently have a hyphenated identity? Or do you feel like you lean one way? Either to Turkey or the United States?

SB: No. For both no, I cannot. I mean, I cannot say I'm an American now, you know, I became a citizen in America. No, my roots are still in Turkey. So yeah, I'm an American Turkish.

LD: And then how about your language? And like, the identity that language gives? You mentioned that you were an ESL student? How has that shaped your life here?

SB: Well, I had to learn the language because I wanted to stay in America, right? It was hard to still I make mistakes, I still learn new stuff. And it's still going. There is no limit, age limit of learning what they say. Still learning.

LD: And is learning something that kind of shaped your time here, especially as a teacher? Is that, is that something that, that you would say has been important in your life?

SB: Yeah. Sure.

LD: Is there anything else you would like to add to that?

SB: I mean, language, of course it's important because you live here you use it every day.

LD: And how about Turkish language, like how is that?

SB: Oh, Turkish language? Turkish language, I still speak Turkish with my family. I do like my nephew's to keep their Turkish and improve because they got both married to an American ladies. So they don't speak Turkish anymore because they spend their time with their own families. But I love my language, Turkish, and I’m so happy when I talk when I meet my Turkish friends. Yeah.

LD: And is. And then what other like aspects of Turkish culture do you still carry? Like here we are enjoying great Turkish food, but do you typically cook Turkish food? Is that something that you present the most?

SB: Yeah, mostly I cook Turkish food. And actually what happened is like when I was a student, I was so homesick, and that and this. I started meeting Turkish people here. So I learned out that there was a Turkish American Cultural Association. I went to their parties, and then I became a board member. So I was really happy helping to introduce our Turkish culture, Turkish tourism to the other people. We organize lots of activities. We organize festivals, Turkish festivals, at the Seattle Central, still lots going on. But 15 years of my life in the states, I was involved with this association. So I was a president, I was a secretary, I was a laborer. I was a social chairperson, we did organize all Turkish traditional days, a New Year's parties. And now for two years, I served for American Turkish Cultural Association that's like the head of umbrella of the United States. The office is in DC. I was present in the Northwest region of the Turkish American Association, as a vice president. And that was the happy time. But then I said, everybody was saying, Oh, you guys are doing a great job as a team, you know, keep, keep on going doing this. But at the same time you have your own life too, first of all. Secondly, I would like to give this opportunity, new Turkish people who are moving to the States, so they can start meeting people and I can slowly retire. And that's what it happened, actually, for the last probably seven years. I'm not in charge, but I– Whenever I have time, I'm free, I would love to attend the Turkish festival or Children's- International Children's Festival in April is such a successful event that has been organized by the Turkish friends, and they are going unbelievable, like every year, they are adding more country. That’s good. That keeps me not homesick too now.

LD: And then when you were president, is there a specific project that you did that you're really proud of?

SB: Not really, it was all teamwork actually. I didn't do it myself. It was all teamwork.

LD: Is there like one, one project as a team that, that you're happy that you made the connection within the Turkish American community? Was there something that stands out to you?

SB: Well, it was very successful, lots of Americans attended, Turkish people were there. They do recognize our festivals now. They do recognize our film festival is going on at the moment. So they were, they were great, very successful projects. Yeah.

LD: And then, were there any other ways that you got involved in the Turkish American community once you moved to Seattle?

SB: Not really, no. No.

LD: And then how about your, your friends here? Do you mostly have Turkish friends or do you mostly–?

SB: I do have mostly Turkish friends. I do have American friends too. But, um, with my busy schedule now, the school and the work and the short days and that and this, I have limited my friends. I had to because I don't have time. So I have a group of Turkish friends that for the last eight years we have been walking around Greenlake every Sunday morning. And we became really close. We are like brothers and sisters and I do see them the most. Yeah.

LD: Do you do any other– Do you do anything else with your, your friends besides the walk?

SB: We do travel a lot. We do house parties. We have barbecues. For example, this weekend, we are going out of town to celebrate one of our friends' 50th birthday. Yeah. So it's lovely. I'm so happy to be with them. Besides that, I do have coworkers at work, you know, we get together and chat and cheat and eat lunch. And then I have family, friends, American family friends that we used to get together very much. But as I said with my busy schedule, I cannot save time for them anymore. Even though I would love to, but not that much.

LD: And how did you meet some– How did you meet some, some of your friends that you didn't share with coworkers?

SB: At work?

LD: Uh no, the friends that you did not meet at work and how did you meet those friends?

SB: The Turkish one or the American ones?

LD: Both.

SB: Both. I meet them, probably like, through, through to another friend, through to my sister and brother, I met lots of American friends because, you know, they were here longer than I did. Then they had more American friends than Turkish friends. So, yeah, they adopted me as a sister, Turkish sister. Some of them call me Turkey sister. Yeah, that's the way.

LD: And then, and then your friends that you've met through work? How long have you known them? And how long have you been working with them?

SB: Probably like 15 to 20 years actually, as we state employees, we get stuck where we are, you know. Then I have been working with them, like probably five or six of them, for the 28 years. We are still at the same department working together.

LD: And would you like to elaborate a bit more on the specific work that you do currently?

SB: Well, I work for the customer service helpdesk at the moment. As I told you, I taught computer classes for 18 years. Actually, I was teaching part time. At the same college I was giving introduction to Microsoft application classes and most of my students were international or basic study students too who wanted to learn about the computers at that time. And I did for 18 years, and then I gave up because it was too much and the point was changing and they know computers so well, but they need the credit, they take the class, they never show up in the class. At the final they show up. I'm like who are you? You haven’t been to this class this many weeks. They go like “Well, I already know that class. You know, I didn't really have to be in the lecture time but I'm here for final” so it was really making me upset and I quit. And I'm back to my customer service help desk position. So I help again, students. I don't teach them but whenever they need help, questions, I do answer. I also help faculty and staff too whenever they need help.

LD: And where do you feel like that– That generosity and that, and that want to help other people comes from? Is that part of being an immigrant or is that just kind of who–?

SB: No, I guess that's personality actually. I, I remember when I was a child, if I will see somebody from the building that I been living, elderly people carrying their stuff coming from the grocery shop. I was the first one. I will run and say oh such and such auntie, you know, I'll help you, I'll carry. Yeah, that comes from the family actually. My dad, and mom was the same way to really caregiver, you know, so that comes from the family.

LD: Okay. Are there, are there any other family values that you see in yourself and that you use in, ideally, life, I guess?

SB: Um yes, helping people, you know, caring about the people. Sharing whatever you can. That was, that was my mom and dad so all my friends, my brothers and sisters are the same way. Yeah. Good values, right?

LD: So, I'd like to hear a bit about some, some food traditions in Turkey specifically surrounding Turkish coffee.

SB: Okay. As you may know Turkish coffee is very popular. And we drink it all the time. I love drinking here actually. Whenever I have a time, usually on Sunday mornings, I make my Turkish coffee. So it's very important every young Turkish girl should know how to make coffee. So we have this tradition when you introduce your boyfriend or the gentleman that you decide to get married to your family, they come with their parents, and the bride-to-be makes Turkish coffee and serves the groom's parents and the family members. So you have to pass the class so you can marry him. If you don't make a good coffee, they go “ehh” at her. So. But nowadays, luckily, we have electrical coffee machines that makes your coffee itself and it's so delicious, the foam part is very important that it has to be foamy. You have to cook it in a really slow stove heat. So in the past, like when I was a child, when I was learning how to make coffee, you wait, wait, wait, it doesn't comes for me. Then you turn your back and then it's overflows, and you have to redo it again. Thanks to this machine, so you don't have to worry about that. So that's our coffee. And then…

LD: And then are there any other aspects of Turkish culture that you don't see as much in the United States? Like just like the–

SB: socializing that stuff? Oh, yeah, there's a big difference. Now, since I got used to it, maybe it doesn't bother me that much. But, in the past– Still, it's happening, but as I get older, I don't hang outside, probably that much. I, we get together in our own houses with my friends. But in the past, like, we would like to go out after dinner. Everywhere will close at 9/10pm, especially here in Seattle. Shouldn't be different in New York City probably, or Chicago. But I was like, “What's this?”, you know. At 9/10 everywhere is closed. There was a place called “Last Exit” by the University of Washington by Burke Gilman. That is the only place would stay open late at 11 till 12 maybe, but everybody will smoke in that coffee shop. It was so bothering, but we didn't have any other choice. So we will go there with my friends. After dinner, had our coffee or tea and then hot apple pie with the vanilla ice cream. I never forget that. It was so delicious. And then I will come home and put all my clothes on the balcony. Because it was like smoking so bad. Smelling so bad. Back in Turkey, it's different everywhere is open till midnight, 2am, 3am. I had this funny story that one summer I went, and we were in Bodrum, the seaside. It's a summer town, and we are at the sea from 8am in the morning till 4, 5, 6 by the beach under the sun swimming all day. So I ran into one of my friend he said oh, I would like to take you out tomorrow night. You know, would you like to come? I said yeah, that will be great. Let's go. I said what time you will come and pick me up. He says 11pm, I'm like, what? It's 11pm? Gosh, I go to bed at nine here, and he was laughing. He goes like oh, that's still too early. I said well, I guess I got used to it, the American style, you know. I go bed early and they party till in the morning probably but it wasn’t me. That was a big change probably.

LD: And then do you carry, carry certain aspects of the Turkish culture to you here that you keep present, like with your family? And like when you have family gatherings? Like what aspects of Turkish culture are still present at those?

SB: Yes, I mean we do you know, ah such as like if it was a family, Mother's Day, sorry. I cancel my plans if I had anything to do. Now since my mom is not alive we celebrate my sister's Mother's Day and we get together, like, at least twice or three times. At the weekend, we get together. All siblings do a barbecue party or, you know, do a picnic with each other. Yeah, we are so close. I do call my sister every morning while I'm going to work, you know. I have to check on her how she is doing, how am I doing? How was the day before? And I will guarantee you that most of the Turkish brothers and sisters will do that, you know, like, communicate all the time. I guess Americans meets only on Thanksgiving, they get together and then rest of the year everybody is in their own world. Or maybe I am wrong.

LD: No, no, no.

SB: No?

LD: Do you celebrate Thanksgiving and other American holidays?

SB: I do celebrate Thanksgiving actually. That was, that was another funny experience that one of the American friend asked me, you know. He asked me do you celebrate Easter? I said, Yeah, whatever is fun, I celebrate, you know, you eat, you drink. It's a cheerful time.

LD: And do you celebrate those holidays with your American friends or your Turkish friends?

SB: Both. Both, I will say. Like this Thanksgiving, I will be at my brother's house in Gig Harbor. All the American and Turkish friends are coming, will be there. And then my brother's wife was teasing us. She says my family lives in Gig Harbor. I don't know if you hear about it or not. But it's such a cute, small fisherman town. Anyways, they have big houses and big yards. And then my sister in law says, at Christmas, my family is the first house puts the Christmas lights up is a Muslim family. So we love festivities, you know, celebrations. Yeah.

LD: And then you care to talk about your religious identity at all. And has that changed? And has that shaped you in any way? From, just from immigration or just…

SB: No.

LD: …in your life, in general?

SB: Not really. No, it hasn't changed. I mean, we adapted because it's a fun thing. Nice thing to do. Yeah.

LD: And how do you identify yourself in aspects of religion?

SB: I don't practice a religion. I don't like the way they do it in Turkey. But when you get your identification, it says Muslim on it. But I don't practice. I only believe the god, as you do, or my Armenian friend does, or Christian or the Muslim or non Muslim. There's only one God, I believe that. I can go to church to pray, I can go to mosque. Been to mosque probably twice at my dad's funeral and mom's funeral - that was it. But, you know, God, just wants- let's put it that way. I don't. I don't like saying I'm Muslim.

LD: And then do you feel like that you're going to move back to Turkey at all? Like, is there a detachment there, just based on how things have changed?

SB: That was my dream, actually. I would say I would retired in United States and move back to Turkey and settle down there in a small village by the Aegean Coast, you know. But the things are not working the way we wish because right now in Turkey, life is really hard, you know, with political and this government issues. I don’t agree with any of them. So I will, I will take it back. I will be here. But we'll see what happens in the future, you know. If everything is peaceful and happy and relaxing, I might go, maybe.

LD: Great. So then, where would you consider your home?

SB: Here in United States, now. Yeah.

LD: And what aspects help shape that image of home for you?

SB: Because my family is here. My job is here. I guess the family is the most important part. You know, my sister, my nephews. Life is easier here - more relaxed and peaceful at the moment. So, yeah.

LD: Do you still have any family connections back in Turkey?

SB: Yeah, I do. I do have my cousin's friends, mainly. Yeah, I would love to go and visit them as much as I can.

LD: And you mentioned that earlier that you tried to visit about once or once every two years. Is that something that you’re trying to keep up with?

SB: Yes. Yes. Because I like traveling. So I don't want my world geography to be only Seattle, Istanbul and Bodrum. I like to see the other part of the world, too. As much as I can. Yeah.

LD: And do you enjoy speaking Turkish and immersing yourself back into the Turkish culture when you travel back?

SB: You mean do I have difficulties?

LD: No, is that something that, that you enjoy doing? And then is it something that you look forward to do? The opportunity to speak-

SB: Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Speaking and talking. Still, I love listening Turkish music. Yeah. I do follow that so close. Oh, my friend says, Oh, how do you know that? She's a new singer. I'm like, I hear that on YouTube. I know it was on Spotify. Yeah.

LD: Do you dream in Turkish or English? Is there a specific…

SB: Well, it’s English now, believe me or not. It used to be Turkish. That's what they say, actually. As soon as your dreams language changes, that means you are from there. So mine’s are English now.

LD: And about when did it change? Do you remember?

SB: I don't remember. Maybe in five, six years, as much as my English gets better. Yeah, but the funny thing is, actually, some of my dreams are so funny that I get on a passenger shuttle from Green Lake and get off at my childhood neighborhood. Can you imagine? It’s so interesting. Or get on the ferry from Seattle downtown and get off at Istanbul port? I don't know why, but this happens very often.

LD: What language do you count in?

SB: Uh, Turkish. Turkish, especially counting the money, sometimes, yeah. And the phone numbers or the other numbers goes in English. It’s so funny- I cannot, like- if a Turkish person asks me for my phone number, I cannot say it in Turkish. It goes English. But if I'm counting the money, I go Turkish.

LD: So then, is your phone set in English or Turkish?

SB: English. Yeah.

LD: And then you mentioned that you like to listen to Turkish music?

SB: Mhmn.

LD: Do you mostly sing in English or Turkish?

SB: Turkish.

LD: So we were just talking about language. Is- is there a language that you write when you take notes?

SB: Well, it depends on the audience, who is talking. I can, I can take in English. Yeah. I guess I take in English.

LD: But like, your personal notes. Like, when you write a shopping list. Is that in Turkey- Turkish or in English?

SB: It is in English. English. Sometimes it can be mixed. But yeah, mostly English, I guess.

LD: And then, okay. So then do you feel like because you're- you speak so much English and you're surrounded by English that you have lost some of your ability to speak Turkish? And do you feel that…

SB: No. Not at all.

LD: Okay.

SB: Not at all.

LD: So, you still feel like that you- you can convey the message that you want to convey in Turkish and don't have any trouble with like finding words and things like that.

SB: Sometimes you do, you know, sometimes I cannot remember the Turkish words that I am telling. The English version comes into my mind, but not the Turkish. Sometimes, it's funny while I'm talking to my Turkish friends this English word comes up from my mouth and they laugh at me. You know? It’s mixed.

LD: And then and then how about jokes? Do you tell jokes in Turkish or English?

SB: Turkish. Turkish. I don't joke with Americans, no. It was really hard for me to understand American jokes when I was new here. I will tell my brother like, tell me when I need to laugh, so I can laugh. I wasn't understanding anything. Then I started, you know. As much as you learn the English, you start understand the jokes.

LD: And then, like, and then do you and then do you read any books?

SB: I do read books, when I have time. And I guess I like reading Turkish books, like real story life. Stories, life stories and stuff.

LD: So, is it mostly, uh, fiction or nonfiction that…

SB: No, I don't like fiction. Just regular, real stories.

LD: And what sort of stories, like uh, of other immigrants or like Turkish culture?

SB: So it's like, childhood stories or life stories. Yeah. And political nonfiction.

LD: Is there anything about being an immigrant woman- and a woman in the United States that you felt like has shaped you here?

SB: No, not at all.

LD: And, you mentioned a bit about gender roles with your Turkish coffee story. How else do you see that in, in society?

SB: Such as?

LD: Just like- what do you feel that they conform to gender roles? Like, are there different gender roles in Turkey than, than in the United States? Like, what do you follow? What do you…

SB: Not really. I guess that's, like, tradition comes from my childhood. You know, that comes up. I don't need to follow up. Maybe that's like personal because I like Turkish coffee, and I like to cook and drink. And that's why I do.

LD: And then, do you ever regret it? Do you ever regret moving to the US? If so, why?

SB: Hold on, I guess I didn't understand the question.

LD: Do you ever just like have- do you- I can’t say words. Um, do you ever regret immigrating to the United States? And if so, why?

SB: I guess I don't know. I mean regret, uh-

LD: Do you ever-

SB: I can’t remember the meaning - regret. I know the word…

Joseph Duffy: It's, uh, to wish you hadn’t had done something. Like, you did something and you're like, Oh, I wish I didn't do that.

SB: No. No, no. Nothing.

LD: Okay. Is there- is there a most important thing about your, your experience here uh, that, uh, uh, that you'd like to share? Like a story about your immigration process that, that you feel it was important to, to get out and be heard?

SB: No. I don't- I don't have anything.

LD: Any key pieces of advice?

SB: Any advice? Not really. Probably changes like from personality to person. No, I don't have any advice. No.

LD: Is there something from like, your time as a teacher that you, that you learned from your students or could teach your students, that you feel like just, just good general knowledge for people to have?

SB: The advice-wise. Well, I tell the international students like: Don't be shy. Just speak out. Everybody c-, can make mistakes. They will correct you. Never get upset to them. Because I was getting really upset when my brother or sister will correct my English. For example, there's a road called Juanita. It’s like, written like, J-U-A-N-I-T-A, I guess? I was saying it- Well, my friend who lives in Jah-nita. They go no, it's Juanita. I'm like no, it starts with J, you know? That was the- they will tease me. They will make me upset and I will say, of course, how many mistakes you made when you moved here? But you know, I cannot witness them. But now we are correcting my English and stuff. That was funny. But I never was shy. You know, I will speak. If I am wrong, they will correct me, I will be upset. But I will always remember that mistake. So I wouldn’t try to make it again. So that's what I do, actually. Especially, a couple students are Turkish in my school. They come and visit me very often. I'm like, Just speak out, make friends you know, read English aloud, speak, watch movie. Put the subtitles on the TV - that helps. That was one of my advice. You know, you see and learn and repeat. That was it. That is- those are my advice.

LD: Uh, then, are- are there any family values that you wish to share?

SB: Yeah. Turkish families, we are so close to each other. Tradition follows here. So you know, special days, we get together, celebrate together. Call each other every day. How we are doing. It’s not like once in a year and Thanksgiving, getting together. We respect each other every day, almost. Email, phone calls. And then once a month, twice a month, we get together, spend the whole day. Yeah.

LD: Great. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about?

SB: Not really? No. But thank you for your time. It was fun.

LD: Yeah. Uh, thank you so much for being part of this project.

SB: Thank you. It's my pleasure.

LD: We appreciate it.

SB: Yes, no problem. Thanks for your time.